A Proposal to Reason & Revelation...
You asked if it might be possible for you to receive permission from our offices to reprint in its entirety Brad's article on Ezekiel's prophecy of Tyre in The Skeptical Review. Wayne and I have discussed this, and we do not believe it appropriate to grant you permission to reproduce any of our material in The Skeptical Review. We are appreciative, however, of your desire to abide by copyright laws.
(Dr. Bert Thompson, Executive Director, Apologetics Press, 230 Landmark Drive, Montgomery, AL 36117; e-mail, mail@apologeticspress.org)
EDITOR'S NOTE: Written January 5, 1995, this letter was misfiled. By coincidence, it was found in a search for something else right after the publication of the January/February 1999 issue of TSR in which a letter from Rob Berry referred to an internet site maintained by Apologetics Press, where this conservative religious publication warned its readers that the "missing day in time" was a myth that apologists should not use as proof of biblical inerrancy. Apologetics Press publishes Reason and Revelation, a paper that describes itself as "a monthly journal on Christian evidences." The staff of this organization are members of the Church of Christ, and the "Wayne" referred to in Dr. Thompson's refusal of my request to republish an article from their paper was undoubtedly a reference to Wayne Jackson, the president of Apologetics Press. This is the same Wayne Jackson whose article on "The Sons of God," I replied to in the Winter 1992 issue of TSR. Although I offered Jackson space to reply to my article, he never accepted the invitation. As I recall, the articles in Reason & Revelation, as well as those in Jackson's own paper (Christian Courier), were not copyrighted at that time, but afterwards copyright notices began to appear in both papers.
The rejection of our offer of free rebuttal space and our request to republish an article on prophecy fulfillment was mystifying to say the least, because the staff members of Apologetics Press firmly believe that they have the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so why they would not want their articles to receive wider circulation and subsequent posting on our internet site is hard to understand, since we always offer Christian fundamentalists the right to rebut anything we publish in response to their articles.
A clue to the reluctance of Dr. Thompson and Mr. Jackson to allow the republication of their articles may be in the December 1998 edition of Reason & Revelation. This issue contains an article by Dr. Thompson entitled "Questions and Answers." In the article, Thompson cited questions that unnamed "skeptics" had sent to his paper. The questions, of course, were answered by the usual arbitrary how-it-could-have-been scenarios that internet users encounter all of the time on lists and news groups that discuss biblical inerrancy. The worthlessness of this method of resolving biblical discrepancies is evident from the fact that it could be used by Muslims, Mormons, or any other religious group to "explain" discrepancies in their religious books. If Dr. Thompson should undertake to defend biblical discrepancies in a forum where he would confront an informed opposition that has an opportunity to rebut, he would find that explaining biblical discrepancies is not quite as easy as it is when he's preaching to the choir. The same is true of much of the material published in Reason & Revelation. It is always aimed at people who are already inclined to believe that the Bible is God's inspired, inerrant word, so that makes it easy to pawn off simplistic "explanations" as real solutions to biblical discrepancies.
Through an exchange of subscriptions, Dr. Thompson receives The Skeptical Review, so I assume that he will read this. When he does, he should consider it an invitation to exchange not just subscriptions but also ideas. If he will grant me permission to republish articles from his paper, I will, as always, extend to him or any of his staff members the space to reply to anything that I publish in response to their articles. I would be very interested in sending to him some questions about biblical discrepancies for him to answer. If he will answer them, I will publish his answers in TSR along with my replies to them, which he can then reply to if he wishes. Of course, I would be delighted if he would publish exchanges like these in Reason & Revelation, but I have no hope that this is going to happen.
More Comments on Archer's Letter...
First of all, I would like to thank those of you who encouraged me through your thoughtful letters and e-mails. Regarding Gleason Archer's claim that life is meaningless without God, my testimony suggests the exact opposite. I came to the point where I had to conclude that if Christianity is the truth, then life is meaningless. The objective evidence to the contrary is what brought me relief. If I knew the eternal destiny of even one loved one or friend, was eternal horror, fire and torment, my life would be meaningless. Surely, a dog or a cat is the one who has received "grace" in this deal. And to think that the purpose of humanity is to punish most of it eternally! I ask you, Mr. Archer, and others like you, where do you find meaning in such horror? Or is this yet another idea that you have chosen to conveniently tuck away in your mental freezer awaiting further "revelation"?
(Craig Cunningham, 6502 East Golf Links, Apt. 262, Tucson, AZ 85730; e-mail, CCunn63@aol.com)
EDITOR'S NOTE: Archer's claim that life has no meaning unless his god exists is a familiar one to those who engage in internet discussions with Christians, because it is bandied about as if it had been proven as absolute scientific fact. Those who have experienced going from religious superstition to the personal satisfaction that comes with having found the courage to face reality know better. Archer and those who parrot his claim don't know what they are talking about. Before they repeat this claim, they should do a study of skeptics who were once Christians; they might be surprised to learn that their opinion is not shared by those who are more qualified to have an opinion on the subject.
Correspondence with Prisoners...
Concerning M. Paul Goldberg's letter published in the January/February 1999 "From the Mailbag" column, I am a theist: while I am not a Christian, and certainly not an inerrantist, I do believe that the Divine exists and that the Divine is immanent in the world. It is therefore with a bit of chagrin that I note that theists in general (and fundamentalist in particular) appear to be rather less literate than nontheists. Indeed, I find that education itself appears to diminish religiosity. Judge for yourself: read the newsgroup "alt.atheism" and compare the spelling and grammar of the non-theists' messages with the theists' messages. Yes, I believe in the Divine, but as for correspondents I prefer atheists.
However, that is not why I'm taking this moment to write. I am writing because, firstly, Mr. Goldberg used my name in vain, and, secondly, what he reports about prisoners is not what I have observed. To date I correspond with three prisoners, and I have received letters from a dozen or so others who are looking for people with whom to correspond. In no case can any of them be likened to people with "learning disabilities." I find such an accusation damn insulting to my correspondents. Without exception the letters I receive from prisoners are the literary equal to those of nonprisoners in spelling, grammar, punctuation, etc. (If any fault could be mentioned, it would be that the penmanship is often rather poor.)
I do not have nearly enough time to correspond with all the prisoners who write to me: if anyone wishes to verify Goldberg's opinion, or contrast it with what I report here, I urge them to ask me for the names and addresses of the prisoners with whom I have not the time to correspond. Do not take his word, or mine, for it: see for yourself. The folks in prison will bless you for it, and I believe so will the Divine. (Yeah, I had to sneak that last bit in.)
(Rev. David Michael Rice, Mariner's Ministries [Dana Point, CA], 723 Calle Casita, San Clemente, CA 92673-2708; e-mail, shydavid@ktb.net).
EDITOR'S NOTE: I am publishing below a sample of the type of letter that I often receive from inmates. It is completely unedited.
Reading Materials Wanted...
I am an inmate at the State Correctional Institute at Greensburg, Pennsylvania. I receive no support from family or friends and I remain indigent.
It is very difficult to obtain good books and reading materials while in prison. I would be so grateful to you if you would send me a current or back issue of your publication. Also, if you have any old, used or slightly damaged books not suitable for sale, please send to me what you can find. Anything you are able to send will be received with open arms and an open heart.
Thank you for helping me in my time of need and for sending light into this dark place.
(Lee Horwitz #CF5079, SCI-Greensburg, RD #10, Box 10, Greensburg, PA 15601)
EDITOR'S NOTE: Mr. Horwitz has been added to the mailing list to receive the free subscription that I offer to all inmates who are unable to renew after the first year, but providing the reading materials is another matter. Each press run of The Skeptical Review will have some copies that are damaged, but finding the time to package and mail them to inmates who may be interested in receiving them is a problem for me. As I write this, I am trying to find time to finish mailing the previous issue to foreign addresses. These must be put into catalog envelopes and marked according to what country they go to, so sending the 200 foreign subscriptions takes much more time than the domestic mailings.
Before anyone bundles reading materials and sends them to prisoners, I would suggest that an inquiry be made first to see if they will be allowed into the prisons. Paul Goldberg, whom David Rice mentioned above, has been involved in sending printed materials to prisoners, and I know from correspondence he has sent me that he has at times encountered delivery problems. He can be contacted for advice at 67-35 Yellowstone Boulevard, #6T, Forest Hills, NY 11375-2610.
TSR and Restrictions on Literature...
It is that time of year to write and thank you for sending TSR for the past year, and to ask that you continue it through 1999, please. I am still indigent.
I see by the mailbag, page 16, November/December 1998, that you are gaining experience dealing with prison systems in America's gulag. The Texas prison system bars some freethought publications, including a publication named Thought out of Arizona, although hard-core porn flows right in. The Texas prison system also bans the literary publication of the University of Oklahoma, World Literature Today, while the hard-core porn flows right in, as does all Jehovah's Witness literature, etc., etc., etc.
The worst thing about TSR in prison is that if you lend it out, it's a good bet you won't get it back! No one has seen anything like it; it's not the corporate media/mainstream pablum they were raised on and are used to. I quit lending and started giving because people don't want to turn loose of them. Sad to say, there are Muslims who seek out TSR because they have heard it debunks Christianity, but the Pentateuch is sacred scripture to Muslims, so I really don't see their point.
You have the best thing going vis-a-vis inerrantists. Please keep me on your mailing/subscription list. Some time in the future, I hope you delve into that emendation of emendations, Luke 23:34.
(Robert J. Zani, No. 328938, Michael Unit, P. O. Box 4500, Tennessee Colony, TX 75886)
Another Inmate's Views...
I would like to apply for a free year's subscription to your magazine. I found your address in a book called The Book Your Church Doesn't Want You to Read, and I read your chapter "Nonexistent Prophecies: A Problem for Bible Inerrancy" and found it very interesting as well as true. I'm not actually putting the Bible down; it's just that there are so many contradictions in it I find it hard to accept as the so-called "word of the Lord." The Book Your Church Doesn't Want You to Read has given me a whole lot of material to back up my theories against all these "Bible pushers" and "reborn Christians" in prison here!!! Sir, to be honest with you, it's damn funny how a lot of inmates in here find religion but once they hit the "gates" it's back to the burglaries, crack pipe, shooting speed, etc., but, hey, while they are in here they seem to have that need and desire to push the Bible off on me.
By the way, I can't wait to show my mother-in-law The Book Your Church Doesn't Want You to Read. She's a Jehovah's Witness. I can't wait to see the expression on her face once she reads it plus a book I have by David Reed Behind the Watchtower Curtain.
(Michael Beaudette, CDC K98580, Magnolia 9414 up, Chino State Prison, P. O. Box 600, Chino, CA 91708)
Still Another...
Walking down the tier, the other day, I discovered a most important publication, yours. I have read the Bible. I am surrounded by "believers" who are "men of God" but haven't even read the Bible and go to church daily. Please put me on the subscription list for prisoners and give my address to anyone who might send back issues. I want very much to join you in helping others learn that God also gave us a brain, that we must use it, and especially when reading the scriptures, as indeed they themselves instruct.
(Dennis Alsin, C-38627, Box 8101-6112-X, SLO, CA 93409-8101)
Another Satisfied Ex-Christian...
I discovered your magazine at the Internet Infidels site and found it to be exactly what I've been looking for. I live in a part of the country which is almost completely dominated by the bibliolatrous mindset. Your publication will be a great resource. Please put me on your subscription list. I'm sure I'll renew when my first year is up. I am probably in one of the smallest minorities in the world. I was raised by atheist parents and attended the Unitarian Universalist church. My parents taught me to respect science and skeptical thought from an early age. For a brief time in my late teens, I attended a fundamentalist church at the behest of a girlfriend. I actually became "born again" for all of three months, but the members of that church made a large mistake: they insisted I now needed to study the Bible. Study it I did and found so many ridiculous and unbelievable things I began to feel embarrassed that I had been "suckered" into this bizarre belief system. I then began to attend more liberal churches and gradually fell away from Christianity altogether. After an exploration into eastern religions and some new age beliefs, my skeptical inclinations have won out. I feel I've come full circle. I now consider myself to be Scientific Pantheist and am happier than I ever was when under the delusion of religious belief. I love debating "fundies," and I find your magazine to be loaded with great information. Keep up the good work.
(Tom Brookman, P. O. Box 201, Jellico, TN 37762; e-mail, tntbrookman@jellico.com)
EDITOR'S NOTE: Day in and day out, I read the messages that Christians post on the internet in their efforts to defend the Bible, and a recurrent theme in their postings is that life is meaningless without "God," but what we hear from those who have experienced life from both sides of the "god issue" does not agree with the gloom-and-doom view of theists who think that life can have no meaning without a god. Mr. Brookman is just one more witness to dispute this often-repeated claim.
Worried about a Tower?
Here is my check for another year of your excellent publication. I especially enjoyed the latest one with the Tower of Babel article by Stephen Van Eck. This was one of the first Bible stories that I could see posed a problem relating to the existence of the Christian god. That he was actually worried that men could build a tower reaching to heaven shows that god was no better informed about astronomy and engineering than the ancient Hebrews. And if the Tower of Babel upset him, why didn't he put a stop to our moon landing? Keep it up!
(Edward Unger, 1380 Toonigh Road, Canton, GA 30115; e-mail E.Unger@worldnet.att.net)
EDITOR'S NOTE: Mr. Unger has asked a question that I have yet to see biblical inerrantists give a sensible answer to. Most won't even try to answer it. If God was so concerned that the building of a tower, which at best would have been only a few hundred feet high, might reach into heaven, why does he tolerate modern space programs, where orbital shuttle flights have become routine and probes are being sent to the far reaches of the solar system and even beyond? That anyone would believe such nonsense as this is a sad commentary on human intelligence.
So what does that say about me? I once believed it, but at least I outgrew it. What's the excuse of biblical inerrantists my age and older who still cling to such ancient superstitions?
"Prophecies" in Daniel...
Regarding prophecy in the book of Daniel, according to Hermann Rausching's The Voice of Destruction, a sect called "The Bible Searchers" was active in Germany during the 1930s, and they identified the "King of the North" with Adolf Hitler, placing particular emphasis on 11:37-38: "Neither shall he regard the God of his Fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god; for he shall magnify himself above all. But in his estate shall honor the God of force." Of course, they were consigned to the concentration camp for their predictions.
This was, of course, published before the end of the war. However, carrying the prediction to its ultimate conclusion, the last verse of chapter 11 reads in the King James Version: "And he shall plant the tabernacle of his palace between the seas (not the plural) in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him."
A further interpretation (unfortunately, I don't remember the source) identified the two seas as the Black and the Caspian, representing the German army's farthest thrust eastward during Word War II.
No doubt the same text could be applied to a number of other rulers from Biblical times to the present.
(R. S. Craggs, 25 McMillan Avenue, West Hill, ON, Canada M1E 4B4)
EDITOR'S NOTE: The final sentence in this letter explains why biblical prophecy fulfillment claims should be viewed with skepticism. The same prophecies are often given various interpretations, and the proponents of each interpretation are always sure that theirs is the right one. There's not much value in prophetic writings that can mean whatever anyone wants to make them mean.
Nebuchadnezzar and Belshazzar...
Thank you for responding to my request for Volume 9, number 6 of The Skeptical Review, which I received on December 7th. The insight given on the various articles in it are invaluable. I found particularly important in value the clearing up of certain fine points under the discussion of the articles through comments and letters and just plain common sense. A fine example, just to mention one, is the letter from Dave Matson, editor of The Oak Hill Free Press, in which he pointed out that there was no reason or indication for secondary meanings of "father" and "son" in regards to the relationship of Nebuchadnezzar and Belshazzar, therefore proving beyond reasonable doubt that the Hebrews mistook their relationship to be actual father and son, an obvious error.
This kind of insight takes top priority. It is irrefutable, leaves no room for argument, and puts any uncertainty to rest. I would like to subscribe to *TSR* and sincerely appreciate the one-year free subscription. Thank you very much for this offer. I would like to comment on articles, and if my own research warrants and merits it, I would be happy to submit any articles to deal with the subject of biblical inerrancy.
(Gary Jollymour, 46493 Mayfair Avenue, Chilliwack, BC, Canada V2P 3J3)
EDITOR'S NOTE: I try to consider all articles that are submitted to TSR, but I receive more of them than I can read. I try to look through them periodically to find those that best fit my publishing goal, which is to discuss both sides of the biblical inerrancy issue. Unfortunately, many submissions don't relate to inerrancy and have to be rejected even though they are often interesting within the subjects they discuss. Writers should keep in mind that an article on the subject of religion isn't necessarily an article about biblical inerrancy.
Renewing on Time...
Oops, I failed to renew on time, but you sent the July/August and September/October issues anyway. Thanks. A check is enclosed to cover 2 years from June 1998 to June 2000, plus a few bucks to cover special mailing of the November/December issue (for which I probably missed the bulk mailing).
I continue to appreciate The Skeptical Review. I pass it on to my brother, who also reads it with great interest, especially the stories of people who found their way out of the inerrancy quagmire by reading your newsletter. It's very encouraging and inspiring. You are making not only important contributions to biblical education but to people liberating themselves from a prison of the mind.
(Paul A. Heffron, 4389 Hodgson Road, St. Paul, MN 55126)
EDITOR'S NOTE: Mr. Heffron made a common mistake in reading the expiration date on his address label. He thought that 6-98 meant that his subscription expired in June 1998. However, the first number refers not to the month of the year but to the number of the issue within that year. Issue number 6 is the last one of the year (November/December), so the other issues were mailed to him because his subscription had not actually expired. Issue number 1 is mailed in January, number 2 in March, number 3 in May, number 4 in July, number 5 in September, and number 6 in November. Each issue will have (usually on the back page) a reminder of what the expiration date on the address label should read if the subscription expires with that issue. You are now reading number two, so if your address label has 2-99 on it, your subscription expires with this issue.
Incorrect Addresses...
My nephew is a fanatical born-again believer in Christ. He loves to give out tracts and argue about our country's founding fathers. I told him that he might be interested in your publication; maybe it would give us something to talk about. He agreed to this. Please send a year's subscription to him at (address deleted).
Thank you for all the work you do to help the deluded see things with a fresh perspective. My nephew tells me that he has nothing to lose by believing, but I no longer swallow that line. (I used it myself when I was a believer.) It is my firm conviction that it is always wrong to believe a lie and that it is our responsibility to continually seek after the truth. I believed a lie for fifteen years. What a waste! I felt such a load lifted when I was finally able to shed the shackles of religion that had imprisoned me. I hope that your publication will be able to raise some questions in Bill's mind so that he might be able to start thinking for himself instead of constantly quoting what someone else told him.
Keep up the good work; it is sorely needed.
(Denise Schilling, S91 W22925 Milwaukee Avenue, Big Bend, WI 53103)
EDITOR'S NOTE: Ms. Schilling's nephew was added to the mailing list, but unfortunately the first copy was returned with a notice that he had moved and that the forwarding order had expired. If she will send me his new address, I will add him to the list.
This has happened before, so those who send requests for subscriptions to be sent to friends or relatives should make sure that the addresses are current.
A Gift subscription...
I have thoroughly enjoyed reading The skeptical Review over the past few months as well as reading the postings on the Errancy list. (I'm still in lurk mode.)
One of the many reasons I became an atheist some 12 years ago was because of inconsistencies and contradictions I came across while reading the Bible, which I couldn't reconcile with the (allegedly) omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent being that (allegedly) inspired its writing. Since, I've become a subscriber to TSR and your list, I've learned a great deal concerning the issue, and it has further cemented by belief that no such being exists now or ever did exist.
I've enclosed a check that should cover my next year's subscription to TSR as well as a little extra to help defray the costs of sending out free issues to imprisoned inmates. You're doing a great service there.
Oh, yeah, I also seem to remember a posting [on the internet] from Matt Bell requesting a free subscription to TSR above and beyond the first year's free subscription. Well, I'd like to be of help to Matt. Please take a portion of my check and renew his subscription for another year.
(Michael Zanussi, 421 Broadway Boulevard SE, Apt. 11, Albuquerque, NM 87102)
EDITOR'S NOTE: The name Matt Bell will be familiar to subscribers who are also on the Errancy internet list. Bell is a biblicist in Scotland who goes through the usual verbal contortions to try to explain discrepancies in the Bible. When his free subscription to TSR expired, he asked me to continue it at no cost because his conscience would not permit him to give financial support to a Satanic work. (Those of you who aren't on the internet miss a lot of fun.) In compliance with Mr. Zanussi's request, Bell's subscription was renewed for another year.
Skeptic's Soapbox...
I'd like to thank you for the good work you are doing. I have been a born-again Christian and then one of Jehovah's Witnesses for a total of over two decades. In the past two years or so, I have been examining all of my beliefs.
I am now an atheist. I found The Skeptical Review on the internet, and it has been invaluable in testing whether or not the Bible is inspired of God. I am much happier now that I am free from arbitrary religious rules.
I think my subscription will be expiring soon, so I am including money for a two-year renewal. I will be sending diskettes once I look up the policies about them. My web site Skeptic's Soapbox is devoted to skeptical topics. Testing the Bible is a part of it. The URL is http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Aegean/2260.
I recommend your magazine to all who will listen. You are making a real difference in people's lives.
(Richard Nazar, 26 Jackson Court, Kanata, ON, Canada K2K 1B7; e-mail, skepticsspbx@geocities.com)
EDITOR'S NOTE: So once again we see an atheist who says that he is happier now than when he was a Christian. As I have pointed out before, I have yet to hear a skeptic or atheist say, "I was much happier when I was a Christian." Nevertheless, I predict that we will continue to hear Christians declare that life is meaningless without God or Christ.
Land of Superstition...
We received your brilliant journal The Skeptical Review (January/February 1999) and thank you for the temporary subscription. The present letter is a humble request to bestow us with all 43 issues of TSR via sea mail. It will be very difficult to get foreign exchange in India. If you still prefer, we may try for some token payment. Kindly understand the urgent need of skeptic literature in this land of superstition. India is the most superstitious country, where anti-intellectualism is the political slogan of the ruling parties! Also we need the 47 page Laws-Till and Jackson-Till debates. Thank you very much for your kind consideration and precious assistance.
(R. Zekariya, Secretary, Vachanam, Centre for Comparative Religion, P. O. Box 3112, Kochi: 682030, India)
EDITOR'S NOTE: As time is available to me, I will try to put together these materials and send them to this organization. The letterhead indicated that this is an organization that exists to study theology and philosophy and "their impact with modern science."
A Difficult Situation...
I received and enjoyed my first issue of the Skeptical Review.
I understand that you used to be in the ministry and I wondered if you could offer me some help or advice with the situation I find myself in. Several months ago I concluded that the bible was not inerrant, for all the obvious reasons. Now my faith in God is barely existent. This might all be okay except for the fact that I am married to a youth minister. He and I met at Xxxxxxxx Temple University.
Were you married at the time you lost your faith, and did this cause problems with your wife? I'm sorry for the personal questions, but I am hoping that someone who has been down this road already can help me. My husband and I get along great except for this issue. Now we argue frequently not only about Christianity, but about what we want to teach our children about God. Our children are xx and x.
I feel very guilty about the fact that I have changed the status quo. We had been going along just fine for fifteen years until I "messed things up." I hate pretending to believe something I don't believe, yet there I am involved in various ministries at church because I don't want to hurt my husband or cause him trouble at his job.
Well, anyway. Do you know of marriages that have survived these types of crises? I can't stand the thought of being separated from my husband but I can't stand the thought of continuing this pretending, either.
(Anonymous)
EDITOR'S NOTE: Normally, I don't publish anonymous letters, but I am making an exception in this case because of the special situation the letter writer is in. I have altered with x's any words in the letter that might betray the identity of the writer.
I was unable to be of much help to her, because it so
happened that when I told my wife that I had lost faith in the Bible, I
learned that she felt the same way. In case there may be readers who
have had the kind of experience this minister's wife is now coping
with, I am publishing her letter anonymously (with her permission). I
suggested to her that she should not think that she "messed things up"
but that her husband messed up by not outgrowing superstitious beliefs
as she has done. If anyone has suggestions that may be helpful to her,
I will pass them along to her.
